discussing sign rulerships

Subject: Question/
From: "KC"
Date: Wed, February 21, 2007 4:10 am
To: libra4@librarising.com

Hi, When I saw your site for the first time I was really surprised how interesting it was.I think it's really a good idea trying to give each sign a certain and single planet. I discussed it in a forum that I think like you presented it on your site that Earth belongs to Libra because in my opinion Venus is too physical, sensual, epicurean and matrealistic. They all don't believe it and said that I'm too blind to see the connection between Libra and Venus. I see this connection but I think that it fits better to Libra and I think that although we live on this planet it embodies a certain principle. The principle is harmony, willingness to compromise, love and justice etc.I told them that e.g. the birth time and location is important for the ASC but I couldn't convince them because they are perhaps too conservative. They said that Taurus fits better to Earth because fertility, nature and so on. But I think although we got fire it's not ruled by Mars or we got Water and it's not Neptune: We got all elements but the principle is important. I would be glad if you could help me and perhaps give me some more proofs or some advice. Thanks. Bye, KC PS.:I use Chiron as ruler of Virgo. In my opinion it fits very well to Virgo.

Response:

Dear KC,

Most people are creatures of habit who will parrot whatever they see hear or read without actually doing the investigation on a matter. When it comes to astrology, hard observation always triumphs over theory or speculation, and this is how the planets were assigned their rulerships. Every planet has a definite effect on the physical appearance as well as the personal characteristics, and for those with the required perception, astrology becomes an intriguing challenge and an undeniable reality.

I have struggled with the Mercury and Venus rulerships for many years now, and the following are my conclusions based not just on theory or speculation but upon hard observaton as well:

Venus; the majority of current opinion links Venus to Libra and Earth to Taurus and I can understand the reasoning -Earth, Terra, or Gaia is seen as "earthy" or "fertile" or "nature-oriented". This, however, is faulty reasoning. One could say the same about Venus or any other planet if we actually lived on those planets. There is no actual evidence to suggest that Venus itself is unearthy or infertile. These are purely physical criteria common to all the planets. If we want to do some real astrology, we must examine the spiritual component as well.

In all of the charts I have studied and observed Venus does indeed have some relation to Libra as I have observed its importance in interpersonal relationships, but I have also observed it to be quite gross or basic or materialistic(Taurean side). So Venus does indeed have two sides to it -just as the traditional astrologers have expressed. The question now becomes -which side is more dominant?

I have observed this same duality with Mercury and the Ascendant or Rising sign -which is of course Earth's influence(not many have made this connection). With the Earth/Ascendant, for example it is very true that it has the most to do with your physical or sensual nature(Taurean side), but it also has as much to do with your level of physical(and mental) beauty, and your sociablity and relationships in general(Libran side). The big question is which dominates or has the edge?

The only way I was able to ascertain the true ruler of either Venus or the Earth/Ascendant was through VISUAL observation of these placements in the charts of others. I happen to have an acute visual sense which lets me actually observe or recognize certain planetary placements in individuals simply by observing their movements, gestures, appearance, etc. I haven't been able to do this with ALL of the planets yet(it takes continued practice), but Venus and the Ascendant are fairly easy for me. What I have noticed is that Venus is best placed, in terms of looks or personal traits, in the earth or water elements(feminine signs), rather than in the fire or air elements(masculine signs). Likewise the Ascendant is more favourable or desirable in air or fire(masculine) than it is in earth or water(feminine). I have proved this to myself beyond any doubt, and it has helped me determine the true or dominant rulerships of both Venus and the Earth/Ascendant. Whether the old rulership links will ever go away, I cannot answer for certain. This requires more intensive study.

It is brave of you to present the view you share with me that Earth/Libra represents the priciple of harmony, justice, beauty, etc., which it does, unfortunately we are now mostly expressing Libra's negative or nightside(Taurus) -which is money and materialism, and which is why most will not believe you. Earth will, however, one day rise or awaken to it's true identity or destiny as the love and peace planet of the solar system.

As far as Mercury is concerned, I have not had as much success as the Venus/Earth puzzle. My own personal observations show me that Mercury is still EQUALLY divided between Gemini and Virgo. There are days when I feel it belongs more to Gemini and other days when I feel it has more to do with Virgo. Even when it comes to its effect on the personal appearance I am stumped. Perhaps I am not destined to solve that puzzle and someone else is. All I know is that there is at least one more planet/body that will help to solve this riddle. Whether it is Chiron, Ceres, Eris, the Midheaven, or some other body I cannot say with certainty at this time. Astrology is still incomplete, and this is what makes it so interesting and challenging!

That is my view on the matter. I hope I have helped.

Librarising

Part II:

Dear Librarising,

Thank you very much.It's really nice to call me brave. You helped me very much and you made me very happy with your view on the matter. Because my way of thinking is similar to yours.

I also think that the people have to involve the spiritual sense of the planet Earth and not just judge it by it's vertility and as you said the Venus could be also fertile in a way.

Yes,that's it.The reason why many people don't believe me because the Earth is living the nightside with the materialism (Taurus).

I realized some months ago that you have a good sense to find out rising signs. Mostly I have the same opinion about them. There are some differences but of course in some cases the rising sign is clearer and in some cases not so clear. Sometimes I'm lucky as well to guess the rising signs of celebrities or friends, for example and I have a sense if someone is born later or earlier.

In my opinion Mercury is the real ruler of Gemini. Virgo is a side of Mercury but I think it's not big. Virgo works, helps, analyzes, serves, criticizes etc. I think it really belongs to Mercury but it's not dominating. Mercury communicates,is airy, brilliant, interferes etc. He is concerned with the intellect like the Gemini. And Virgo is an Earth sign so the mind isn't the most important thing. The sign Virgo is reasonable and concerned with health and work: more earthly things. Besides I noticed that Mercury feels better in an air or fire sign

I came to my mind that it's odd but the early signs always keep their planets:

Mars: Aries/Scoprio Aries got Mars

Jupiter:Sagittarius/Pisces Sagittarius got Jupiter

Saturn:Capricorn/Aquarius Capricorn got Saturn

I believe that Mercury should got Gemini and Taurus should got Taurus. But that's my opinion.

Libra and Virgo are also the youngest signs because long time ago they belonged to the great autumn constelltion with Scorpio. So it's normal that there are some problems with the rulerships because these signs arose out of a new way of thinking so their rulers will also require a new way of thinking in astrology. So it's possible that the Earth rules Libra, for example.

I noticed that people who act like a Virgo or have Virgo traits very often have a strong Chiron aspect in their charts.

So I use Chiron as ruler of Virgo at the moment.

That is really too bad but I really believe that Vulcan was the true ruler of Virgo. However the asteroids don't show this strong Virgo energy for me.

But I can say that they don't have a strong or important placed Ceres so I would expel her as true ruler.

I wonder why in my eyes Ceres' energy is a little like the Venus energy?

I would be glad if you could answer my mail.

Bye,

KC

PS.:Sorry that I'm so curious but what's your sun sign? Have you really got a Librarising and therefore you named your website like this?

This is perhaps another reason why I'd think Mercury belongs to Gemini because I got Mercury in Gemini and really feel like the airy god of the mythology.

Response:

Dear KC,

My Sun sign is in - and I do not have Libra rising. I named my site Libra Rising in honor of planet Earth which I feel is linked to this sign. I do however have the MC in Libra. I failed to mention in my last email that Eris is also being considered as Libra's ruler. I feel that this is a real possibility. What then to do about Earth? Could they BOTH rule Libra? With so many new bodies being discovered, astrology is really becoming more puzzling or complex.

I too feel a Mercury will in all likelihood prove to be the true ruler of Gemini, and I too have noticed that it is the early signs which keep their planets, but untill I've proved it to myself satisfactorily, or it's officially decided upon, I will always have some doubt.

You have an interesting view of the history of Virgo, Libra (and Scorpio). Yes, according to esoteric astrology they were all once one sign, and they therefore must be the newest after splitting up. They must also represent the newest parts of human nature which we are currently developing or unfolding.

You seem to have a good grasp of rising signs too. You should continue to develop your perceptive abilities. Maybe you can help me decide on some puzzling celebrity ascendants. Like you said, the rising sign is not always so clear in some charts. I have so many charts on hold because I feel the Ascendant is incorrect, even if it comes from a "respectable" source. It is then that I have to rely on my istinct or intuition. I do not claim to be always correct but feel, or have noticed, that the so-called "authorities" aren't always right either. In fact, I feel that more than half the charts on the internet have wrong ascendants, and they are often off by only one sign.

I don't know too much about Chiron's effect so I can't really comment there. It is classified as a centaur which is a cross between a comet and a minor planet. I bought and read Barbara Hand Clow's book on it long ago but am still not convinced that it rules Virgo or any other sign. Zane Stein uses it a lot and says it may be linked to as many as four signs(Virgo to Sagittarius), but he personally prefers Libra as it serves as a "bridge" between the old and new planets.

I'm not sure about Ceres either. It is a tiny planet, king of the inner asteroids, like Pluto is king of the Kuiper Belt, but whether it rules any sign I cannot say. Most people link it to either Virgo or Cancer or a combination of both.

That' all I have to say for now. Thank you for your response, and yes, I do also feel that we think a lot alike.

Bye for now, librarising

Subject: suggestion/perhaps advice
From: "KC"
Date: Tue, May 22, 2007 3:45 pm
To: libra4@librarising.com

Hello, Last time we talked about the connection between the Earth and the sign Libra and about guessing the rising signs. You believe that most of the birth times are incorrect. I also noticed that you often base your decision of the celebrity's rising sign on your intuition. In my opinion it's a useful way and I do it mostly alike: But I think that the physiognomy of someone is not just based on the Ascendant. I recognized that planets in conjunction to the rising are very important or planets in the first house. Even the Midheaven and planets in conjunction or in the tenth house modify the appearance because it's our public "face".It shows how we behave in the society and in what are we interested in. Other aspects like Trine etc. can influence,too. So someone who has Scorpio rising and Venus in Libra in conjunction to the rising looks perhaps like a Libra rising. Even the other planets can modify the appearance. When you have Scorpio rising and Venus, Sun, Moon in Libra- you will have Libra traits in your look. Probably you know it. So it's just an advice because I saw that you often try to find the perfect Virgo rising or the perfect Libra rising but maybe someone who is Leo Sun can't be so intellectual and quiet. I would say that not so many birth charts in the internet are wrong. But I know that there are some controversies between some celebrities. I think that's it's perhaps to general to say that fire and air rising signs are the most attractive. Taurus rising can be very beautiful and Cancer rising women are often pretty. Another theory is that there should be more celebrities with Virgo rising and Scorpio rising because they are widespread rising signs on the Northern hemisphere. That's it. It's just a suggestion. Not more.It shall not be criticism. Perhaps you can think a little bit about it. Bye for now,

KC

Response to suggestion:

Hello Kimberly,

It is true that a planet in the first house, especially if it is very close to the Ascendant degree, will dominate the appearance, according to the nature of that planet, and I try to look out for this. Trines, as you said, are powerful too, because they involve the same element. The Midheaven may have a similar effect, but I am less acquainted with this. Two or more planets in a sign or "stelliums" will of course make themselves evident in the appearance. I still hold that, in general, air and fire ascendants have a monopoly on physical attractiveness. I've noticed that water sign risings can have pretty faces, but that the bodies are often out of proportion. It is true that Virgo and Scorpio rising are widespread in the northern horizon, and therefore there are more people born under them, but not many of them like to go public, so it kind of balances out. Yes I try to pick the best examples for a rising sign, and yes I do use my intuition a lot to decide or suggest a rising sign, but it is a visual and not psychic intuition. It may not always right, but it helps a great deal.

I would like to hear more about your thoughts on the Midheaven. Like you, I have a suspicion it can greatly affect the appearance. Do you think it is as important as the Sun or Ascendant? What sign, if any, do you think it is linked to?

librarising

Part III

Hello Librarising,

I would not say by all means that a Virgo rising or a Scorpio rising don't like to go public. A fire sun sign can modify it, for example.

I think that the rising sign don't say what you want. It's the sun.The centre of the universe. Your priority. You are willed to do it.

The Ascendant or rising sign is a kind of task. It's the body, the I. Your soul was born in this shell. Many people don't like to hear about their rising sign. I know many Libra risings. They say that they don't like to balance or judge everytime. They are often torn between their possibilities. The Ascendant is a great process in your life. So many astrologers say that when you are older your rising sign is more important because then you are strong enough to fulfil it.

The Ascendant is our starting point and the Midheaven our destination.

Besides the Midheaven is our reputation, our public face and for what we are famous. Its energy represents our fate and our work. It also modifies our appearance because it's the way we behave in society.

For an actor the Midheaven represents the roles that he plays.

Example: Marilyn Monroe played naive, feminine and sensual roles. She has a Taurus MC with Venus conjunction. Although she was a phenomenal actress she never earned the tribute she deserved. Because it was her fate to be "just" beautiful in this life. I think this is also a proof that Venus belongs to Taurus.

Her sun sign was in Gemini. So she wanted to be more intellectual and not to act naively. She liked comedies but her moon sign was in Aquarius. Therefore she dreamed of being "more" than beautiful and sensual. But the moon signs often shows your dreams and it's hard to assert them. Her rising sign was Leo. Her task was to go public, be witty, loving, creative and noticeable. But the rising sign often reminds me of a contract. You can't get out of it.

Angelina Jolie has Aries rising. She is famous for action movies and physical, strong roles.

Charlie Chaplin has Leo Midheaven. He is famous for humorous roles.

Planets at the MC can concretize the roles.

Yes,I would say that the Midheaven is as important as the Sun, the Ascendant and the Moon.

Because these ones show our basic personality.

We actually could say that the Sun is Leo, the Moon is Cancer and traditionally the Ascendant is Aries and the Midheaven Capricorn.

It's really difficult but in my opinion it's like that:

Moon-Water-Cancer: I need/long for (secretive)

Sun-Fire-Leo: I want (with my free will)

Midheaven axis-Earth-Virgo:I will (consequence of our actions,work)

Ascendant axis-Air-Libra: I must (contract between body and earth)

That's it. Yes ,these are some of my thoughts.

Bye,

KC

Response:

Dear KC,

Thank you for your thoughts, which reflect many of my own, and which I feel you express sincerely and honestly. I appreciate your responsiveness and feel you have much potential to be an astrologer yourself. Perhaps you will make a significant discovery in this field, via your apparently strong intuition. If you do, you are always welcome to share it with me.

Wishing you well, librarising

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